The Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson is 20%’s first return guest and in this episode Caroline, Blair and Leah pick up where they left off in their last conversation on business model innovation among agencies. This time they view it from the client’s perspective, exploring why agency innovation is vital for clients and for the future of marketing services itself.

Brett Colbert is known for pulling no punches. In this episode he brings his direct and provocative point of view—from both sides of the procurement table—to bear on the state of marketing procurement today. Nobody in the marketing/procurement/agency triumvirate gets off easy in this episode. Grab some popcorn and settle in.

In this episode we up the creative content by talking to veteran creative director George Tannenbaum about the changing nature of the advertising industry, the deification of data and why he thinks procurement deserves to win in their negotiating battles with agencies.

20% welcomes its first client/agency team in the form of Kruger Products CMO Susan Irving and Broken Heart Love Affair co-founder Beverley Hammond. Together they discuss the trust and risk required to get to Kruger’s needle-moving and award winning campaign Unapologetically Human.

The Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson joins the pod to discuss how agencies are evolving away from legacy business models to a variety of new models that drive better commercial success for the agency and greater value creation for clients.

Consultant David Meikle joins the pod to discuss—and listen to Blair and Leah rave about—his new book Tuning Up: Improving Performance and Reducing Stress in Advertising and Marketing.”

Niki McMorrough has seen the client-agency relationship from both sides of the table and that perspective has left her convinced that no one wins in a pitch. She joins Blair and Leah to discuss her conversion from pitch advocate to pitch abstinence.

Madison Avenue Manslaughter author, agency advisor and former BCG and Bain consultant Michael Farmer joins the pod to discuss his brand new book, Madison Avenue Makeover: The Transformation of HUGE and the Redefinition of the Ad Agency Business.

Leah has a bee in her bonnet over how agency benchmark data is used by clients and even some agency associations. Jason Cammorata joins the pod to steelman both sides of the argument.

Former big brand marketer Christy Lebor joins the pod to describe what she sees as the pivotal moment when CPG companies shifted from innovation-seeking to efficiency-seeking. She also talks about the folly of zero-based budgeting and why agencies will never be strategic partners to their brand manager clients.

Consultant and former Nike procurement manager Stuart Dunk joins Blair and Leah to talk about his vision for how the marketing procurement function should evolve, how agencies should push back on onerous demands, the surprise highlight of a marketing procurement professional’s week and much more.

Rory Sutherland, Ogilvy UK Vice Chair and best-selling author of Alchemy, joins the pod to discuss the costs borne by marketer and agency in the shift away from relational capitalism, toward measurement and efficiency.